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First let’s make my beliefs perfectly clear on this subject. I choose life even after rape. I firmly believe abortion is murder. However recently I was reading a new blog post and found a comment I wish to comment upon. The commentator is a friend and fellow blogger and I find her smart, articulate and a very interesting read.

Here is her blog.

She has some enlightening and thoughtful posts. I don’t always agree with her and her views are from a strictly Christian stand point so it makes sense I not being Christian wouldn’t see eye to eye on all things. Even when we don’t I’ve found her to be fair and level headed. I try to emulate that level head (I fail most times) but I try.

Anyway this article was about abortion being murder and not even having an exemption for abortion when a woman was raped. We’ll talk about that too.

The comment in question is this:

I tend to agree with you Silence. I really think women live a bit more in subjective reality then men do, and I don’t think that’s a bad thing at all, I just think it needs to be tempered with some objective morality, which for the most part, men tend to do much better.

It was actually a guy who managed to convince me that there shouldn’t be an exemption for rape, because that one stumped me too. One thing I managed to understand is that once a pregnancy occurs a violation of a woman’s body has already happened. (We don’t like to think of conception as a violation, but when it is unwanted that is what it is like.)

Believe it or not, the idea that a violation already occurred eluded me. It eludes many women and what we seek to try and do is erase any evidence of that violation, after the fact. In rape, that is an even more pronounced response. Women are trying to demolish all evidence of a violation. The problem is that is a deception, a lie, a rather cruel form of brainwashing, because of course no matter what you do, you cannot really erase the truth. It’s like putting a band aid over a raging infection. So years later we have women suddenly dealing with the trauma of a long ago rape and now also grieving the loss of a child that trauma (and some brainwashing) led her to kill. So when it comes to long term consequences, we did that woman no good at all, in fact, we contributed to her harm.

That is where objective morality comes in. Subjective is awesome for the short term, but not so good at seeing the long term impact.

We all live in the same reality and subjective or objective as it might be it changes for each men and women depending on the issue. That doesn’t bother me except this line.

One thing I managed to understand is that once a pregnancy occurs a violation of a woman’s body has already happened. (We don’t like to think of conception as a violation, but when it is unwanted that is what it is like.)

Violation is a noun and it means the act of violating, a state of being violated, a breach, infringement, or transgression, as of alaw, rule, promise, etc., desecration, profanation, “sexual molestation, especially rape.”, a distortion of meaning or fact.

Consensual sex does not fall into any form of violation. pregnancy is a logical out come of sex even protected sex. If a pregnancy occurs it is not a violation of the woman OR her body. It is nature and natural and what can and sometimes does happen as a consequence of sex. But it is not a violation weather it is wanted or unwanted. Who ever told you this has never been violated is such a way.

Rape is a violation. The rape victim did not consent to sex nor to the possible outcome of sex. They did not willingly engage in sex. It was forced upon them. If that victim happens to be female and becomes pregnant the pregnancy is NOT the violation, it’s a byproduct of the violation (the rape).

Pregnancy is one possible result of sex and that doesn’t matter consensual of not. But the act of sex can be consensual or non-consensual (aka rape) and that is where the violation of a woman’s person happens.

Now on to the article…

Now when I work with these women and girls who have been raped I encourage them to think over the options. I encourage them to look at adoption and sealing the birth records. I give them information of legal services that are free for rape victims, information about getting medical bills taken care of, ect..

My goal is not to convince them to not get an abortion but to educate on the alternatives. Including financial help in making the choice to not abort.

Two considerations that hard core anti-abortion people always fail to understand when opposing abortion for a rape victim.

1) The needs and mental well being of the pregnant rape victim may be better served having an abortion.

Rape is dehumanizing and traumatic. It is violent and brutal mentally and physically. If you’ve never been raped count yourself lucky. If you have then you understand the pain, trauma and every emotion involved. Couple that with now being pregnant. You didn’t want sex it was forced upon you and now you have this pregnancy that you also didn’t choose.

Most women choose to abort. Right or wrong you’ve no idea the mental suffering.

2) You can’t force your religious morals and values on others.

Freedom of religion includes the freedom from using the state and law to force your moral beliefs on others. I respect your opinion that abortion is murder I share it. But I can not force you to do things by law because of religious conviction.

What happens when Muslims are now the dominate faith in America and they enact sharia law? What say you when they tell you your mother, wife, daughter is now half a man, can’t vote, must dress in a burka and hijab, can’t drive and can’t leave home without a male family member? After all they now have the majority and can MAKE it the law of the land and thereby FORCING you to abide by their faith and beliefs.

It’s the same exact thing here. Because you and I believe doesn’t mean the victim believes.

Forcing pregnant rape victims to carry the baby will result in higher suicide rates and that is a plain fact. The mother could have been saved with an abortion. Will you be willing to now answer for both deaths mother and child?

33% of rape victims have suicidal thoughts. But now look at those who choose to carry the baby and the number jumps to over 90% and a full 50% of those attempt suicide within two years of the rape.

When you have a degree in psychiatry (I am working on mine now by the way) and then worked with rape victims, have worked with women who have been raped (held them and tried to console and comfort them) long term which I also have for more than a decade, or been raped yourself and impregnated by that rape (also have been here too). Then you can speak from a place of knowledge. Otherwise you’ve no damn clue what you’re talking about.

You can only imagine the horror from your comfy 20,000 foot moralistic view. I won’t force my views on another especially knowing what rape is, what it does to your mind and body. I do encourage girls to do many things.

  1. Get help now (psychological, physical, emotional)
  2. If you haven’t already; report it (most girls are brought to us from the hospital and it’s already been reported)
  3. Take all the time you need because healing is not the same for all
  4. If you are pregnant from it educate yourself now on all the options and not just abortion. (I also provide a list of helpful places including funding and financial help, medical help which is free or reduced cost, adoption agencies, legal services to seal birth records and more)

I encourage the victim to not abort and consider saving the babies life. But I do not force, condemn, judge, or belittle any rape victim who chooses abortion.

Also what about the child, what will they think when they get older and go looking for their birth mother. Upon finding her she refuses to see them, or they run into the seal records wall. What of the child then? That empty feeling they have never knowing. Or what if they find out they were conceived in rape. so many things to consider in this very complicated issue.

The one thing that should never be considered? Your personal beliefs because to the victim they don’t matter. You can encourage, you can educate but to force anyone to carry a child conceived in rape (incest is rape) is flatly insensitive, unloving, uncaring and wrong.

You fail to see the human suffering of the mother. From the trauma of rape to the trauma of then being forced against her will to pay the penalty for a crime she didn’t commit. Nine months she will be forced to remember and birth isn’t pleasant either, plus the recovery time after. In some cases financial aid isn’t available either. So she has to take a year off school, time away from work to give birth to a baby she never choose and didn’t want and bears no fault in becoming pregnant?

Why not just adopt Sharia and let the men walk free and lash and imprison the victim? Your view is not much less cruel.



This post seems to have generated some confusion. This post is about abortion and persons upset by abortion laws and wishing to deny even rape victims access to abortion. It is about one group imposing their will upon others who may or may not believe as they believe. It is about a sensitive issue where one group of people wish to control the conversation by quoting morals from a book (even a book they believe is holy) to others who may not follow that same book.

It’s about the slippery slope of using the power of the government and laws to force your morals simply because you’re in the majority. (For now) Remember turnabout is fair play.

It’s about victims and their rights to not be further victimized. It is not about the exceptions to any rules, any individual case or cases, it’s not about atheism, not about weather women who have abortions (which are legal) should be sent to jail for murder. None of those are the question.

Please stay on topic. Here is the simple question.

Do you feel you have the right to violate the rights of others?

Do you feel you have the right to dictate morals simply because you are in the majority (for now)?

If you answered No and No then we are in agreement here. If you answer Yes and/or Yes then we have discourse here. I’ve now spent considerable effort discussing off topic points and round robin logic trying to disprove the points here by using apples and comparing them to the steaks on the grill.

Thanks for your ability to read and stay on topic. At least try and discuss something in the post anything.